Aristotle in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle M

There's a section in this book that discusses the inability of a narcissist to fix a motorcycle. Every bit a software engineer with narcissistic tendencies, that section really struck a nervus, and inspired me to swoop way deeper into our systems and endeavour to sympathize "what where they thinking" when working in a legacy code base someone else designed. This marvel has led to several aha moments that I would have prematurely dismissed as an idiotic code base designed by idiots had I not spent the fourth dimension to try and understand it.

There's a number of times when I've finished reading a book, reading an commodity, listening to an album, or watching a pic, I'm left thinking "What the fuck was that?" It didn't necessarily bring joy, just it fabricated me think, and much later on I realize how skilful it was. Zen and the Fine art of Motorcycle Maintenance is the best example of this.

People complain nearly this book a lot just I enjoyed it for the nearly office. Having no philosophy background, I generally struggled through some of his more bookish points though. Merely I generally savour books that have "quotable wisdom" in the narrative. One of the quotes that has stuck with me the longest is from this book: "The identify to amend the world is beginning in one'south ain heart and head and hands, and so piece of work outward from at that place."

It should be cautioned that this book gets killed by a lot of people who have washed philosophy for various reasons. Only Phil Jackson is plainly a fan, and anyone who wins 10 NBA championships and got the best out of MJ, Kobe, Shaq, and the Worm, and is a "Zen Christian" must know something interesting. And yeah, it's a book worth reading through, if grueling at times. I can't find the quote, simply one of his points is that quality things have quality considering their creators deeply cared about them and put that care into the product. It seemed very Jobsian (maybe not surprising given his ain interests).

The book'south investigation of quality and how quality relates to a meaningful life has occupied my listen off and on for decades at present. But much more then the past few years. I recall going to Duke Chapel a number of years ago and looking at the stone piece of work there and wondering if there was even enough masons of that caliber to build something like that today. And so I idea what it must exist like, beingness able to bring your children and 1000 children at that place and say, "Pappy helped build this identify with his hands". Perhaps it'due south a case of greener pastures but it sure seems having the ability to draw on those types of experiences would act as a warm coating when the more than cynical me started to develop a cold perspective.

I try not to read to deeply into it every bit a 'Philosophical' text. And more on the concepts of 'Quality' and the thought procedure of an analytical person. The volume starts with fairly uncomplicated existent world examples I'yard sure about people could agree or chronicle with(the writer/graphic symbol was an editor of 'Digital Calculator Manuals') .

They may not be stimulating and Reddit search is non working at the moment, but if yous'll search at that place, there's a lot of commentary at unlike times and across various subreddits on the volume.

Is there a resources in the vein of the linked review, merely that explains the book (and its philosophical content) on a more basic level, for someone with no background in the subject? I was hoping that Pirsig would help me empathise philosophy by placing information technology in a familiar and tangible setting -- that'south what the title suggests. I was very disappointed. Take the idea of Quality, for example. Pirsig talks nigh information technology for half the book; this is a concept that drives him insane and is central to his life and to the narrative. I notwithstanding haven't the foggiest idea of what he is talking near, pages of foreign analogies notwithstanding. To me, this was a book almost a troubled intellectual and his grappling with mental illness. About somebody that drives himself insane past obsessing over abstruse concepts arising from human being experience. And it's a well-told story that fabricated me recall, just also made it very hard to relate to the protagonist simply because I practise. not. understand. his intellectual struggle.

https://www.amazon.com/Sophies-Earth-History-Philosophy-Clas... Philosophy has a really strong "begat" narrative that helps if you're interested in learning the bases. East.g. A begat B begat C... Also, I retrieve one of the difficulties in talking almost philosophy is that specialized language in the field has incredible pinch efficiency. It'due south a lot easier to say Kantian than to take 1,000 words to epitomize his arguments and behavior.

Simply you lot do! You are saying and itterating exactly how he feels when it comes to quality. You tin can't define what he'south talking well-nigh in his book. He can't ascertain quality. They're very similar concepts, not exact, but they provide the aforementioned feeling. How would you lot define quality?

I would say that quality is an abstract value judgement that requires context to be meaningful. That's why it escapes precise definition. Whenever Pirsig talks virtually quality, it seems that he is heavily overloading the term. What he is actually trying to practise is develop a set of guiding principles that makes him experience similar he understands the earth and his role in it. Near people use faith or science for this, merely Pirsig explicitly rejects science as a manner of discovering the truth (for his definition of truth), and I think he implicitly rejects religion too. I ended upward reading "Quality" as just a label that he attaches to the personal philosophy he develops instead.

That's a bright review, capturing the major threads of the story like no other I've seen. But information technology also seems best suited to those who've already read the book (and tin can appreciate the relevance of the reviewer's philosophical argot), and mayhap non every bit suited to those who are deciding if this story would be worth their time. OTOH, maybe anyone not put off past the reviewer'south linguistic communication and willing to read his entire review volition see that s/he indeed does have The Right Stuff to plumb the rich depths of ZatAoMM. God speed, Mr Pirsig. Your book meant worlds to me.

Slight tangent: I take seen a lot of mention of Zen, just not many people bring up the follow-up book, Lila. I institute the second to exist a more accessible and applicable-to-every-solar day-life sort of book, and more maturely written. I enjoyed Zen more than when I was younger and Lila more than as an adult; I have read both at least 4 or 5 times apiece. Both are brilliant though. And the linked review is fantastic.

Yes, Lila is great. I think at that place is a lot there if you are looking to brand some pregnant out of a seemingly random world.

I don't know what you all are talking near. Clearly this is a great slice on how to set motorcycles! :) I enjoyed it. The part where he talks about how a stripped screw is suddenly the most important screw in the earth and you should treat it every bit such really stuck with me. I have used that attitude many times to become out of jam. As well, I actually enjoyed his description of how he approached fixing his bike vs his friend'southward BMW. And besides the little talk he gave in putting together the grill and the instructions manual.

To translate Plato every bit a practitioner of Zen...the other Buddhist sects must be far different from Mahayana Buddhism--anyone who is familiar with Mahayana, especially the line stemming from Bodhidharma, and Plato'due south thought volition know that to compare Plato's philosophy with Zen is obviously ridiculous--the i rejects the being of objects, the other wants there to be a whole heaven of conceptual objects--to think there is any similarity in the 'one' of zen and the 'ane' of Plato, or the Neo-platonists for that thing, merely shows to me that you've engaged in very shallow reading. Still perhaps there's something in it, based on how absurdly incorrect it seems--plus I only know a flake almost Mahayana--no other Zen traditions, so perhaps there are some that are more alike. In general I am suspicious of all books and articles that insist on modelling their titles off of buzzy cliche's: "Zen and the fine art of XYZ" "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and XYZ" etc. It just does non leave a tantalizing impression and stinks of shallow laziness to me. I suppose this isn't totally fair to this volume, because information technology came out in 1974--just still! That's a shame considering skimming through this commodity, this books sounds as though information technology may prove to exist somewhat interesting. Please, y'all've worked so difficult on your volume--for the love of god, bless information technology with the championship it deserves! I think this is some practical advice for writer's: consider the glittering titles of Nietzsche'due south works earlier you settle on a name for your volume--is that really what you desire to call it?--is that actually its name? Sheesh, I may take to read this just considering of how vehemently I disagree with that Plato/Zen illustration--I need to see where the hell this guy could possibly exist coming from other than bad, clumsy reading, and poor conceptual housekeeping--if not from here he's picked up on a thousand connectedness I've missed, and has thus created something worthwhile. (If only the proper noun designated and then!)

The book is a monument of literature. Its title is the genesis of your buzzy platitude, not a lazy user of it. Information technology deserves none of that opprobrium from someone who hasn't read it.

For those unfamiliar with the works, it'southward a expert reference. In 'Zen in the Art of Archery' Eugen Herrigel uses archery as a metaphor to initially larn, and so to teach Zen to a western audience because teaching information technology direct, intellectually, is indicated to be impossible. Pirsig'south novel references this because big sections of the volume deal with the inability to limited something on a purely 'classical' or intellectual level, the disability to define certain concepts, and the attempt to somehow span that intellectual leap of faith and explicate things that cannot be explained directly. So he tries to convey his ideas on a more intuitive level, using all the arts of redeemed sophistry through the means of creative writing, a story about travelling on a motorcycle with his son and discussing motorbike maintenance. It's interesting to me to what extent the huge corporeality of "Zen and the Art of.." books that exist these days are references to Pirsig's novel or to Herrigel'south. My feeling is by and large a lot of them are unaware of the existence of Herrigel'southward novel and the choice of phrasing does suggest Pirsig's. Yet, even right at the start Herrigel'southward title was a template for other books: only a few years later on its publication his wife Gustie likewise published a book called 'Zen in the Art of Flower Arrangement' with a similar treatment of Zen through the medium of Ikebana or flower arrangement.

I assume as much--thus my afterthought about 1974. The more significant point, about the outright absurdity of interpreting Plato as a practitioner of zen--stands. Information technology as well stands, equally I said, that this absurdity makes me desire to read the book--it indicates someone is post-obit quite a different prepare of rules--playing quite a dissimilar game. You're are nearly definitely right on calling me out--my annotate was a tad irrelevant and unfair--juvenile. Occasionally one regrets a comment after positing--one gets the sense a gut response--a passion, was at root--that comment was my gut response to the Plato/zen idea--which is a nullity to me! At the aforementioned time I do think it's a bit extreme to call my annotate an opprobrium. It doesn't help that, as someone above pointed out, this reviewer clearly wrote the review for those already somewhat familiar with the book. Having not read it, I don't think I could requite y'all a one sentence synopsis about the subject matter with total conviction based on that review alone. I but have that starting time quote from the text--which out of context, at least, seems absurd in its relating zen and western thought (though it has a fine understanding of Aristotle)

Off-white, and 'opprobrium' was a bit heavy. I don't retrieve there is a one sentence description. It'south a very, very rich book - a rare thing, with no piece of cake summary possible. I have no philosophy training then I'yard non qualified to discuss whether those aspects of the book make sense or not, only there is an involved (and unresolved) discussion on the nature of 'quality' which is alone worth reading it for. At that place is a narrative. There are questions of mental affliction, of family unit, of interpersonal relationships, all of which are a pleasure to immerse oneself in. Information technology is a difficult book, simply ultimately I felt myself the better for expending the try. I think you might detect the experience worthwhile besides, given what your comments propose near the perspective y'all'd read it through. You might not agree with information technology but yous may enjoy the argument. A expert weekend to you lot!

You should not confuse the western philosophical zen writing tradition with Zen Buddhism. In the western Zen Buddhist circles Robert M. Pirsig and Alan Watts are seen as both menace and blessing. On the other manus these ii gentlemen created interest for people to learn zen. On the other paw they created new western philosophy that adopted the name of zen and shares some ideas in surface level. Watts was very educated in Zen Buddhist literature and his writings are even more than confusing. Zen tradition is known as the meditation tradition in Buddhism. The give-and-take itself (etymology: zen -> ch'an -> dhyana) means meditation. Zen training trough the history is sitting in meditation. Very little is taught every bit a philosophy. People who go to the gym and are able to put fourth dimension aside to train can option up zazen easier than people who read zen books for 10 years.

Thank you, that clears things up. I am near familiar with the platform sutra and some verse of the monks--and well--it'southward nigh incommunicable for me to relate that to anything Plato always conceived. But of grade that may merely mean I haven't read enough Plato or practiced plenty zen.

I call up you are taking the Plato as a Buddhist quote too literally. It is meant as a literary metaphor to draw a distinction between Pirsig and Phaedrus, who are both characters in this particular novel.

You lot're seriously overthinking the name hither. I more often than not feel the aforementioned nigh names but brand exceptions for the original use that started the trend and creates the fashion such as How I Learned to End Worrying and Love the Atomic Bomb or Zen and the Fine art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Also a reference to motorcycle maintenance is central to the start of this volume, sadly I've merely read the first third, so the name feels perfectly natural especially so taking into account the time it was published in with the fourth dimension's involvement in Zen. I cannot speak to your other objections simply I suspect you lot would like the book based on your response and if you requite it two chapters I think you'll know.

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